Ok. I am writing this blog about religion because I think that peoples religious beliefs are often misguided and religious teachings often influence their political opinions and beliefs. I think that Americans need to wake up and smell the coffee just as our forefathers were learning to do. Organized religion is a scam which is poisonous to society.
If you believe the bible is completely true then why is there a health care situation in this country?
The bible states very clearly -
"they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover."
If the bible was true in this case, then Christians could heal everyone by laying their hands on the sick.
The following article is something that I found funny because it is true. -
A Deist Challenge to Christians
An Open Deist Challenge to Christians
This page is intended to reach sincere Christians with the realization that Christianity and the Bible promote falsehoods. Sincere Christians genuinely want to know God better. They have been lied into believing that the Bible is the word of God and that by reading it and believing in it, they are bringing themselves closer to God. This Deist Challenge to Christians should free, or at least help to free, these sincere Christians and allow them to realize that they have been duped into believing that Christianity and the Bible are the way to God. Once sincere Christians realize they have been duped by Christianity, they are free to examine Deism, which teaches that God gave us reason so we can apply it to the designs in Nature and realize that those designs presuppose a Designer of Nature, or God.
The challenge to Christians is to prove Mark 16:18 which says those who believe in the Gospels will be able to "lay their hands on the sick, and they shall recover." If this is true, then Christians would be able to go to any sick person anywhere and lay their Christian hands on them, and they would recover. The fact that we have millions of very sick people around the world tells us that either this Bible promise is false or that Christians really don't care about the sick, otherwise they would lay their hands on them and they would be healed! And if they could in fact heal people, there would be no need for doctors, nurses, hospitals, health care or Michael Moore's new documentary, Sicko!
The World Union of Deists hereby challenges Christian clergy to demonstrate the truth of this Bible promise before the world. Christian clergy should make arrangements by emailing me at bob@deism.com to conduct a verifiable public healing of a terminally ill person. If a member of the Christian clergy, or any Christian, contacts me to meet this Deist challenge, I will make all arrangements for the test of this Biblical promise and will post the information here along with the results of the test.
The falsehoods of the Bible need to be exposed so people can make progress in their lives and in society. As Thomas Paine wrote, "It is an affront to truth to treat falsehoods with complaisance."
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Mark 16:15-20 (English Standard Version)
15And he said to them, "Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17And these signs will accompany those who believe: in my name they will cast out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up serpents with their hands; and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will recover."
19So then the Lord Jesus, after he had spoken to them, was taken up into heaven and sat down at the right hand of God. 20And they went out and preached everywhere, while the Lord worked with them and confirmed the message by accompanying signs.
OK. I am wondering if anyone on U4prez wants to accept Bob's challenge?
Post your answers here so that we can read them.
Christians ..... Get off your lazy asses! lol
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http://www.deism.com/challengetochristians.htm
Arch, to your first post... Didn't Jesus say "your faith has healed you"?
yep Ensign is wiped out, Sanford is toast, Palin quit, republicans continue to lose, and a black man with Hussain for a middle name is president, so yes miracles do happen!
Arch, I am sure miracles still happen today, but I am a skeptic and view such accounts very cautiously. I don't think they are necessary to fulfill these verses where Jesus is commanding his Apostles to go out and basically establish the Church, especially since these verses are fulfilled in verse 20 of this chapter and throughout the book of Acts. Do sign miracles still happen today? That is a tough theological question. I don't put God in a box, but I also don't walk into a charismatic church and just assume it is all authentic.
Drinking poison, or seeking a snakebite, on purpose to test God's power is wrong in itself. I feel like that is what Lucky is alluding to here. There have been occasions in recent years where Christians that were persecuted, in the Middle East and China, have been forced to drink poison or have been bitten by snakes, and they have not died. One website that has some details is "Voice of the Martyrs." There are others as well......I think that you are getting confused about when these things are supposed to take place. I don't necessarily believe that a Christian should actively pursue them. I do, however, believe that they occur on a random and spontaneous basis in correlation w/ God's will......I disagree with Rob that God only speaks through the Bible nowadays. I have known ex-Muslims who have converted to Christianity based on a direct confrontation w/ Christ Himself. The things they have endured and sacrificed (loss of limbs, loss of children and wives, etc.) because of these claims is enough to convince me that they indeed believe they saw Him......Arch.
The entire thing is clear Friday. You are the only one twisting the words. The reason is that you have to because the verses are clearly not true. You can't drink poison just because you believe. You can't lay your hands on the sick and heal them just because you believe. These verses are very clear. -------------------------------------------
17And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
At least you have gotten past the whole Jesus is the sun conspiracy non-sense. We are making progress. But let me be clear, I am not a preacher, and I am not crooked. What do I gain financially by you understanding this verse in it's context?
By the way, if these signs were supposed to be perpetual even after the establishing of the church and the deaths of the apostles, then why did Jesus tell Thomas "you believe because you have seen, blessed are those who have not seen and yet believe"?
Read verse 20, I think it's pretty clear.
Lucky, I don't know what to tell you. I am not a reading comprehension teacher, all I can do is tell you what it says and what the context is. You will twist it no matter what I say. Anyone can read it properly as long as they know how to read and comprehend. You're struggling with this one.
I have done the research Friday. Apparently you are not familiar with the signs that were being performed in this very chapter of Mark. The chapter is about the Resurrection of Christ. So is it only the apostles that have to believe in Christ? Was it just the apostles that Jesus was telling this to? So we can disregard the part about "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned"? Thanks Friday ... but the last thing that I need is a crooked preacher telling me how to interpret the bible. If the bible is the word of God ... then certainly he did not give only priests the ability to read it properly.
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Mark
16:14-20
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14Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.
15And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
19So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
20And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.
Jesus used signs to demonstrate his role as Messiah, and he gave the apostles the power to do signs and miracles to spread the gospel. You would know this if you ever bothered to do some research for yourself.
What does it say, "These signs" will accompany. Signs were always used throughout revealed history to signify that God was doing something new. God used signs to defeat the Egyptians. He used signs to signify the beginning of the Hebrew nation. He used signs to tell prophets about the future. Or do you think maybe Bush should have put out a sheep skin before invading Iraq to see if it would be dry in the morning while the ground was wet with dew?
But this was in the context of Jesus sending out his apostles to start the church, not saying that today I can heal people with my hands, drink poison, or that I have a flaming tongue on my head.
This is exactly what happened. Peter and the Apostles went out and were filled with the Holy Spirit to start the church. THey spoke in tongues, they cast out Demons, they picked up serpents and were bit but did not die, and of course they laid hands on the sick and they were healed. Read the book of Acts, you might learn something.
So you believe the bible when it says "16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17And these signs will accompany those who believe: in my name they will cast out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up serpents with their hands; and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will recover." Please explain how I took this out of context Friday. The bible is clear on this and it is not taken out of context. Mark 16 is the "resurrection" of Christ. Do you believe you can drink poison and that you can lay your hands on the sick and heal them just if you invoke the name of Jesus?
I dont let people like Libby or Lucky lesson my Faith in God. And thats something some people just don't get.
FnG, it doesn't matter what you believe, what matters is what is true, then that you believe what is true. You could believe that you were god, but if you aren't, it won't do you any good.
militaristic
lol F&G u got me confused their for a second as well I meant Muhammed had a pretty miliateristic start. Christains in the early days where hunted down.
Forgive me, I meant Muhammed, I get the two mixed up, because Muslims pray to both it seems.
If the greek says Kurios Iesous Christos, then the english should translate "Lord Jesus Christ". Otherwise, it should not be translated that way unless the context demands it.
Umm Allah had a pretty miliatristic start. lol
No, the ones that are closest to the original Greek/Hebrew/Aramaic texts. King James is not a bad translation, although some areas come from the Latin translation of the originals instead of the originals themselves.
It doesnt' matter what your religion is, you should believe in some power that regulates the heaven and earth. If your religion is good it will teach kindness and tolerance. I think a bad religion is one that teaches intolerance and uses punishment as a way of inflicting their beliefs on their society. Surely Jesus teaches goodness and kindness and the people who are Christians believe this. Allah was probably a good man and taught kindness also but the Muslim religion seems to have gotten off track. The Muslim clerics seem to use fear to keep control and that is what is important to them - control.
so what is the perfect english speaking Bible....the newer ones that take Lord off of Jesus' name????
The original writings were certainly the Word of God, and we have a few translations out there that are very good. The King James relies heavily on Jerome's Vulgate and was born out of more of a political reformation than a theological one, so there are some spots I take issue with. The 1611 has been revised several times due to errors in the original translation.
Yes it is. It is the "Word of God" for the english speaking people.
I don't think any Christian who can think would ever suggest that the King James bible is to be taken for every single word as the word of "God". Of course not. That Christian would either be fooling themselves or be fools themselves.
These verses were fulfilled by the Apostles to whom Jesus was speaking. There are many examples in the Bible of Peter and the other apostles laying their hands on people and healing them. And there is even a situation where one apostle is bit by a snake and it doesn't harm him. This was the beginning of the church, with speaking in tongues and all that. It was the ushering in of a new age. Anyone who has done any sort of study into this at all knows that. We are not the ones who need to "get off our lazy asses". You are.
Lucky, any text taken out of context is a pretext. You say the Bible "clearly says", but you leave out the context. The Bible also says that flaming tongues came down and descended on their heads. Does that mean that if I don't have a flaming tongue on my head that I am not a Christian? You call us lazy, but you yourself google, and then cut and paste verses ripped from their context to try to make some sort of challenge. Get off your lazy butt and do some actual learning for yourself.
God doesnt show Himself in the same way as he did before the Bible was written. God performed miracles and people was to show those miracles (drinking poison, handling snakes, etc) but since the Bible was completed God speaks through the Bible to His followers. He doesnt express Himself through a burning bush or light coming from the sky anymore. His truth is written and all they will read will understand
They have to use Jesus's name, Lucky! That is the underlying element here. The power to do these things is through Christ, God, and/or the Holy Spirit-take your pick......Even the pharisees knew that only through the power of God could someone cast out demons (which, IMO, can be metaphorically speaking of psychological ailments as well as some diseases)......But I am off to bed. Interesting topic, though.
The bible is very metaphorical, much like the art of war, and especially taoist texts which cannot be comprehended easily as the bible at all.
Uh .. that is not what the bible says. Mark 16:17-18 clearly states - "17And these signs will accompany those who believe: in my name they will cast out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up serpents with their hands; and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will recover." The verses says "they will". It does not say Jesus will. It says believers will be able to do this.
First of all, we do not heal them. God does. And it is also written "Do not put the Lord your God to the test." (Matthew 4:7, Deuteronomy 6:16) So, this type of wagering is pointless and most God-fearing Christians will not give it the time of day.......However, I will attempt to make one point. Miracles by themselves are over-rated. If God granted a miracle every time a Christian asked for it, there would be no accountability or personal responsibility. It would be the equivalent of God granting a prayer request of every Christian to win a million dollars. The result would be catastrophic. But if one person wins a million dollars, then it can impact them and their families. This is the purpose of a miracle. To one or a few persons, it makes an impact that has an effect on all those involved in that person's life. That is why miracles are special, and should never be expected as some sort of entitlement as a follower of Christ.......Just my 2c......Arch.
OH ya .. I would like to see them drink the poison too. That would be nice. I guess Bob was a pussy because he didn't set up the poison challenge. lol
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